[Israel.pm] srael.pm] Preparing for the pugs hackathon

Gaal Yahas gaal at forum2.org
Sun Nov 27 23:54:26 PST 2005

[accidentally not CC:ed to the list.]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 07:45:27AM +0200, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> > > > My most important question for you is: do you want to join?
> > >
> > > I'd like to join only on the condition that I will not work on pugs
> > > per-ce but instead on one or more of the following things:
> > >
> > > 1. Parrot - the new VM for Perl 5/Perl 6 or other languages.
> > >
> > > 2. PONIE - the Perl 5 implementation to run above Parrot.
> > >
> > > 3. Phalanx - Improving the Kwalitee of the most important perl 5 modules.
> > >
> > > 4. Other random perl 5 hacktivity. (like Test::Run -
> > > http://search.cpan.org/dist/Test-Run/)
> > >
> > > In the previous Hackathon, someone was disappointed when I told him I
> > > want to work on improving the HTML::Parser test coverage for Phalanx.
> > > "Well if you want to work on P5 rather than P6...". I don't want Perl 5
> > > hacking to be considered a second-class hacktivity.
> >
> > Nobody's considering it second class; it's just not what we want to
> > do. Regardless of your opinion of cinema, a book library isn't the best
> > place for watching films, right?
> >
> > You are very much welcome to work on Perl 6 related projects, so if you
> > want to work on parrot by all means do; I think it will be more fruitful
> > during the hackathon if you worked on something *in* parrot that pugs
> > is wanting *from* parrot. Of course, nobody knows what that'll be in
> > three months, but there's always something.
> It still sounds like it's second-class, now that I read it. And the book 
> library/cinema thing is an extremely bad analogy.

There's a group of people gathering for a purpose. It's their choice
to work on that purpose. Of necessity this means there are things they
choose not to work on: this does not imply a general moral classification
of the world, e.g. that flower arrangement is lesser in worth somehow than
Trait composition. It does mean that *for the duration of the event*, they
hope to focus their energies on A rather than B and flower arrangement,
if done at all, would be a distraction. This doesn't mean everybody in
the group hates flower arrangement. Maybe from Israel some of them will
fly directly to a workshop on this subject in Brazil. Maybe not.

Allow me to remind you that the conference itself is *not* limited to
Perl 6 related matters. You are welcome to participate in much wider
subjects. If one of them has particular appeal to you, but you think it
isn't as well-known, well-liked, or just plain well-done as it should be,
by all means give a talk, organize a BOF, hand out pamphlets, whatever.
This is part of what we have conferences for.

> > > I also would need an account on Linux. Hacking on Perl Projects on
> > > Windows using cygwin is something I did in the previous Pugs Hackathon,
> > > and a simple "make test" with coverage took a lot of time. I cannot work
> > > like that - cygwin is incredibly slow. I'd rather not have an account on
> > > Mac OS X, whose desktop I loath with all my passion, unless there's a
> > > fully Windows-like IceWM or (more preferably) KDE installation there that
> > > I can use. I may be able to get a laptop from home which I can install
> > > and run Linux on, but I'm not sure.
> >
> > Let me make perfectly clear that this is a grass-roots event! If you
> > don't bring your own computer, how can you expect there to be one
> > provided for you? 
> Actually, that's not what I need. I believe I can bring a computer, and the 
> only problem is that it will run Windows. So I'd like to have an account on a 
> different computer on the LAN (running Linux) where I can login using VNC or 
> whatever, and be able to run programs there.

So you want to borrow somebody's CPU time. Let me explain again: it
doesn't make sense to demand this of the event organizers. We probably
do not have the means to set up a lab all on our own (unless you have
some very practical and practicable input on how to get that done). This
means that the computers in the event are all the personal computers of
participants. What you want is for someone else to bring more computing
power than they are using so you can share it. Very likely someone
may be willing to do that, but don't expect this to be someone else's
responsibility to look after other than your own. As far as I'm concerned,
this is like liking orange juice VERY MUCH and asking the guy next to
you for a cup out of his bottle when all you bothered to bring with you
was water.

> > If you think you may not have a computer to work on, 
> > it'll be your private reponsibility to secure one. Of course, you could
> > ask people you know from the list for this, and even request that they
> > install all sorts of things for you, but that would be a personal favor
> > they'd be doing you, not someone's duty. Think "bring your own beer",
> > or alternatively "stone soup".
> OK.
> > > All of this is excluding potential future priorities, like work, etc.
> >
> > While this is a fine response for now, when registration time comes you
> > will need to decide more seriously if you are coming or not. Please
> > appreciate that it's hard to organize things in real life when
> > participants think it's okay to cancel on a whim.
> OK. If I believe I can attend, I will register, pay the necessary money, etc. 
> At the worst case in this case, you will get my money, but I won't be able 
> tot attend.

You should know by now that this isn't about the money. If you want
to do Perl 6 work, we welcome your contributions. Start writing good
patches. Participate in intelligent discussions. Raise problematic issues.
The hackathon is an event that takes some effort to set up, and the
effort is wasted if you don't contribute.

Gaal Yahas <gaal at forum2.org>

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