[OFFTOPIC] Re: BSc. for Jobs [was re: [Israel.pm] Perl job at Giga]

Shlomi Fish shlomif at iglu.org.il
Mon Feb 2 03:55:09 PST 2004

On Sunday 01 February 2004 22:11, Omer Zak wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> > On Sunday 01 February 2004 10:39, Yuval Yaari wrote:
> > > Seems like I'm never going to get a new job.
> > > Why do companies insist on having BSc. ???
> [... snipped ...]
> > I think one reason is that they probably see it as another way to
> > separate the men from the boys. They want to have such a criteria so
> > they'll be able to choose among less applicants. Or they think that it
> > actually really matters.
> There is one thing which an university degree can prove (see disclaimer
> below):
> If someone has earned an university degree, then this means that he is
> able to finish a big project, no matter what happens, no matter what are
> the obstacles on his path.
> This is because getting a degree is analogous (in a way) to doing a big
> project, dealing with all kinds of crazy difficulties, silly constraints,
> aggravatingly cold-hearted administration, clueless fellow students and
> senile professors.
> In other words:  what one really does in university when he aims at a
> degree for getting a better job - is not as much learning as about proving
> that he can get something done (passing tests at reasonably high scores).

Well, it does not mean that someone who did not finish university is incapable 
of doing that. 

As for the university itself - I think it's a very extreme and masochistic 
form of a project. In most of my past workplaces, people were friendly and 
supportive, there were good working conditions, there weren't any stupid 
tests in the traditional sense (you just had to code or write documents), I 
could consult others most of the time if I had trouble, received money to do 
my job instead of given it away, and generally was psychologically rewarded 
for good performance instead of being given an arbitrary grade.

I think it just shows a person can take a lot of abuse. Whether it is good or 
bad depends on the company. A good company would like that if a person feels 
something is wrong, he will try to remedy the situation somehow. A bad 
company may just wish him to continue taking the abuse and shut up.

>     The Big Disclaimer is:  provided that one didn't shortcircuit the
>     process by cheating.

That's not such a big disclaimer. Cheaters usually don't go very far, at least 
not in cheating in tests, which is the lion's share of the grade. I know 
someone who up to a point copied all his homework, because he said he did not 
have time to do them during the semester. What he did was study all the 
material during the tests period. And he was a cum laude student...

> Of course, what material one covers in the university matters.  There are
> several possible ways to prove oneself, and one would be wise to choose a
> way which yields him those skills, which are most relevant for his future
> career.


> The consequence of the above when it comes to getting a job without
> academic degree:
> The candidate should be able to prove, in another way, that he is able to
> embark on a few years long demanding project, and complete it in spite of
> all difficulties and obstacles.

However, the obstacles you face when completing a project when you work in a 
good workplace are very different from the ones you face when doing a 
university degree.


	Shlomi Fish


Shlomi Fish      shlomif at iglu.org.il
Homepage:        http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/

I don't believe in fairies. Oops! A fairy died.
I don't believe in fairies. Oops! Another fairy died.

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